This is another mental activity I'd like to share on here.

(audience: groan) LOL

For those of you unacquainted with the idea, "Lateral Thinking" was made famous by Dr Edward de Bono, and consists of puzzles which cannot be solved by straightforward means. You have to think 'outside the box'.

The rules are easy. The inquisitor writes out the problem, and answers questions from the players. Any player can ask any question at any time, but questions can only be answered with one of three words :-

yes
no
irrelevant

Each player must find the right line of questioning to unravel the mystery. The winner is the player whose question explains the mystery and gets a 'yes' answer.

There are a number of set pieces already in circulation. Here's one of them.

A man lives on the 18th floor of a tower block, and works on the 1st floor of the same block. Every morning after breakfast, he gets into the lift on the 18th floor, goes down to the 1st floor and starts work. Every evening, he gets into the lift on the 1st floor, goes up to the 16th floor, gets out and walks up the two flights of stairs to the 18th floor. Why does he not go all the way to the 18th floor by lift?

is there a friend on the 16th floor having a party lol

perhaps he needs lifts in his shoes? is he very small?

He needs the exercise.

@merlin11 please don't ask more than 1 question in a post, else it gets confusing.

1st question: no

2nd question: yes

I guess that solves the mystery. Do you have a lateral thinking puzzle to share, or do you want to invent one?

@gedmen: that was a statement, not a question. merlin11 has solved, but if he doesn;t want the next go why don't you take it?

@merlin11 apologies - I inadvertently referred to you as 'he', I'm sure from your profile that you are 'she'. Sorry!

Do you want to take the next one or should gedmen try?

@sw thats okay.

Cindy's parents told her to never open the basement door. One day, while they were out, she could resist no longer. When she opened the door, she was shocked and surprised by what she saw. What did she see?

was it more than one thing that she saw?

yes

was it more than 10 things she saw?

irrelevant

Were all the things of the same type?

no

were some of the things sentient creatures?

no

were all of the things inanimate?

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@sw no

lol quark
what clues are we playing with. im off to the kitchen for some relief

@merlin your basement problem is what I'm working on.

Were the animate things animals?

recap. got distracted .
your last question...

irelevant

had she seen these things before?

no

did she know why they were there?

no

were they there due to action or actions by one or more of her family?

irelevant

Was she dreaming?

no

was action (as opposed to identity and juxtaposition) involved in what shocked and surprised her?

result of her own action , yes

sorry, I wasn't clear

what she saw included action, not just identity and juxtaposition?

was she originally inside the basement?

yes !!!!!!!!!!!! she opend the door from inside the basement
well done ged
cindy is the "scarey thing in the basement"
lets celebrate in the kitchen.
its your turn now.

Ok here is an easy one:

A woman has three daughters who were born on the same hour of the same day and of the same year but they are not triplets,how is this possible?

are any of them adopted?

They are 3 girls of plus one or more boys?

i.e. quads; quintuplets; sextuplets etc.,

No

@Quark yes correct.

How can I make some-one get out of a chair they are sitting upon
before I have walked around them 3 times?
Oh and I promise that I do not touch them directly or indirectly nor lay any inducements before them. It is purely the person in/on the chair and myself. I have won many pub bets with this one.

I already know this,so I will leave it to others to find the answer...

Given that you use the words "...make someone..." can we confirm that it is some action or actions on your part that we have to guess?

Actually I have a better idea

It is *inaction* on your part that is the key

You simply refuse to walk around the subject. They must then follow the laws of nature and - eventually - go for a pee or whatever.

Correct.

(Except in the pub I always walked around twice and then went to my chair or the bar with the words "so you're going to stay there all night?)

OK, here's my go.

A group of one-legged people are met together to receive a parcel. They open the parcel and find that it contains a leg. They examine the leg and then throw it away. Why?

its a chair leg?

no

did it belong to one of them originally?

was it too small?

@windsorboyd - no

@merlin11 - irrelevant

was it human?

yes

Is it the opposite leg to the one they have missing?

Or should I say is it not the leg they need?

lol, that was my next questions ged.

@gedmen/@merlin11 - irrelevant

Is it because you can't re-attach a human leg?

irrelevant

a man`s ?

irrelevant

child`s

no

female?

irrelevant

Are the one-legged people children or small people?

no

okay this is a long shot.

were they pirates?

no

Where they once cannibals who have become vegetarians?

did they want a wooden leg?

are they all siamese twins who are joined at the hip and dont need the leg?

@gedmen - no

@merlin11 - irrelevant and no

Please note I will be a bit slow for the next day or so - I'm en route to a clien'ts site and won't have many opportunities to log on.

are you leaving a clue to ponder over in your absence?.

i think the answer to that is no lol

How about the leg was inferior to the prosthetics they already have.

Did they refuse the leg on religious grounds?

Was the leg usable?

Was it the wrong colour?

Was it the wrong sex?

for the avoidance of doubt, irrelevant to all above

It was and gangrenous?

no

Was it because the leg had no foot?

no

it is not what they ordered

no

Does it have a body attached?

no

Have you made this question up?

not at all - you simply haven't found the productive lines of reasoning yet

one of your questions had a germ of an idea, but as written it could not be answered in a way helpful to you :-)

The leg had the wrong size foot.

no

Was it, what is sometimes known, as the 'third' leg and they all still had theirs. The males that is.

no

Was it thrown away because none of them wanted another leg?

N'Quark your last question was a little below the belt rofl

RAFF

no

Are they paralympians?

no

Do they already have two legs?

no!

I'm confused. I assumed that when I wrote "a group of one-legged people..." it would not require any clarification. :-)

Almost all of the questions have been very limited in scope. You need to widen the scope.

I'm confused by " A group of one-legged people are met together to receive a parcel." is this written in a nonsensical way to deceive us?

Did they open the wrong parcel?

no

you must admit that the event itself is so unusual it merits investigation every way possible - yet very little investigation has yet been done

are they in a hospital

I'm going to make a judgement call on this.

If I said 'irrelevant', which it actually is, you would feel cheated later.

So I'll answer

yes

and hope you get there soon now!

was the parcel meant to be opened by them

yes

did they know it was coming

yes

was there anything else in the box?

no

They never asked for it in the first place.

no

i.e. they did ask for it

wrong tissue type

no

nobody is spreading the net wider!!!

they wanted the box instead

Examine/throwaway together irrelevant

but separately examine for quality then throw away so they
can race to it by hopping to decide who gets to use it.

Are the one-legged people corpses?

no, no and no

cxan people please start asking questionbs which transcend the immediate situation, else this will never be solved

/cxan/can/
/questionsb/questions/

Are they doctors?

no

@ged you would find it helpful to rephrase your question

as phrased your question applies to the whole group

is the one who discarded a leg a doctor

no

that is not the question I was hoping for

I didn't say that one of them discarded the leg - the group discarded the leg

did the leg previously belong to one of them

Is one of the group a doctor?

no

this is the most significant answer yet!

Are all but one of the group doctors?

no

The natural meaning of the previous answer is that none of the group is a doctor

Are they patients?

did you answer mine ? did the leg previously belong to one of the group

@windsorboyd the answer was and is no

@gedmen - in order to help you guys, I answered 'yes' to 'are they in a hospital?'. The correct answer would have been 'irrelevant', i.e. they may or may not have been in a hospital. Since I have in effect placed them in a hospital, the logic of that decision means that yes, they must be patients. This is sensible in the context of the answer, but it was not originally a part of the answer.

Hope that helps :-)

That came out wrong - should have said

"This is sensible in the context of the solution, but it was not originally a part of the solution."

After being unable to decide who should get the leg they threw it away.

are they happy with what they are ??? (I mean the faact that they all have 1 leg)?

@thor - no

@reficul - irrelevant (I think we can all assume that they are resigned to being one-legged, the question of how they may then address this defect is not a part of the problem here)


guys, nobody is looking outside the immediate situation here. You must do so if you want to get anywhere

ok do they find it weird to find a leg in a box ?

no

did they know wut was in the parcel before they open it ??

yes

was it because there was only one ?

no

you really need to get your mind concentrating on things outwith this meeting!

Are they planning something?

no

don;t think about the future

was the leg obtained illegally?

no

keep thinking about what this leg is about

If the leg was sent to them and they then throw it away,it follows that they only needed to see that someone has sent them a leg,am I correct?

that's a bit simplistic but I'll say 'yes'

this is getting exciting - you must be close to the end now

Mmmm.. does it seem weird to them that they are all 1 legged ?

no

If the leg was sent as confirmation then the one-legged group have all lost their leg voluntarily or by agreement,am I correct?

yes

@ged that is the nub of the idea, but there is a lot of detail missing - you have not established what was the nature of their volunteering.

Maybe it was somekinda club called the one legged club .. or they thought it was fun to have 1 leg.. btw does that mean that gedman answered it correctly ??

For my money, the answer needs to include an explanation of what caused the "group of one-legged people" to exist in the first place, and an explanation of why one person had to send their leg to the group. Neither of these have been explained yet.

@reficul I think you asked three questions there - the answer to all of them is 'no'

I am formulating a theory that there is a plane crash somewhere remote i.e. the Andes as in the film Alive, to get help one of the party has to Trek for days or weeks without food so each fellow survivor donates a leg as food for the journey, as no-one would want to be the people to stay behind & lose a leg the journey-maker has to agree to lose/donate his leg to appease those who donated a leg so he could survive if they are successfully rescued, is this correct?

@ged, your story is not precisely the answer, but its so close I think I will award you the win. Well done!

The actual answer:
There is a shipwreck/plane crash into the sea/whatever. The survivors are on a lifeboat, but food runs out. The only option is cannibalism. They decide among themselves that they will only break this taboo in the highly moral interest of preserving every life on board. To preserve life, each person donates just a leg. Everyone enters into the pact, but only one of them is a surgeon and thus capable of removing the legs safely. He/she must remain mobile to do this, but because all have entered the same pact, he/she is bound to lose a leg also. This promise is carried out after they are rescued. The identity of the leg is the only thing that the one-legged people need to establish, hence they throw it away after examining it.

Someone did suggest cannibalism in an early question, but it was tied in with vegetarianism so I couldn't give you any insight at that point.

Nobody asked either of the killer questions :-

(1) did the group all know each other before they lost their legs?
(2) did they know the person who sent the leg?

Those questions lead on fairly rapidly to the answer, but people were not thinking that far outside the immediate situation.

Its s pretty complicated story .. Can't we say they all had 1 leg and wasnt interested with the leg in the parcel .. xD :P just kidden softwizz

Here is an easier one,we need it after @wizz tortured us for weeks LoL

Mary died in Plymouth,but Frank died at sea,they would have preferred if Mary had died a few days earlier but they were happy that Frank died where he did,Why is this?

were they a couple ?

N'Gedmen

I think I know the answer to this one (Frank gave it away) I'll let some others try first.

no merl,

thx thor

were they on a boat togather when frank died

@wizz re cannibal question , ged added the vegetarian bit as a joke, i think you should have answered yes to cannibal part but a no to now veggitarian, your reply steered me away from thinking that the legs had been eaten :(

well I'm all broke up about that LOL

the rules were plain - questions may only be answered yes/no/irrelevant - and it was a single question

I think I tried pretty hard to help you all, particularly towards the end. I also hinted at the cannibal/vegetarian thing being unhelpful to you.

When this was first posed to me, verbally, it took me 40 minutes of continual questioning to get there. I don't think you did that badly!

@ged are these real people?

Were they related ?

No to all the above...

are they ships?

Are 'they' the French?

No merl,no wizz

are "they" the Spanish?

No

are 'they' a nation or national grouping, as opposed to a specific grouping of people?

No

are they actual people?

@wizz, you've already asked this question & I've already answered...no ;-D

sorry - a senior moment :-(

are they fictional?

Irrelevant.

Did Mary die before Frank ?

Irrelevant.

are they fish ?

No.

are they inanimate?

did they breathe?

@wizz yes and no,depending on ones opinion

@merl I would have to say.......no.

I think we need some clarity. I have been asking questions about 'they', i.e. "they would have preferred" and "they were happy". I have a strong suspicion that some of my questions have been answered as if 'they' referred to Mary and Frank. Please advise!

'they' as you put it are irrelevant,this is an easy question with a simple answer, try not to 'over think' this one.

I can't say more or its giving it away if I haven't already.

Is it to do with dying in a theatrical sense?

No.

Have we all give in,and on such a simple question too?

Is it a good thing that they died?

yes

Ah it simple it's because F... a.d .a.y.......

(damnit run out of ink)

Is the name Shelley in any way associated with this?

No

thor has given a good clue to this answer

How about you give us another one, ged?

Ok, try to work out why someone would be happy that frank & Mary died?

Inheritance??

Don't answer that one. lol

the undertaker?

It you're not going to answer thor, then can I ask - their children?

no

no to both your questions wizz, concentrate on why it was better that one of them died at sea, I'm giving it away now.

They were both carrying/suffering from a really bad disease.
Frank dying at sea prevented him bringing it ashore.
Mary dying 3 days later meant she brought it ashore.
Which is why it would have better if she had died earlier.

Anywhere close?

No.

so it isn't Typhoid Mary?

ah - what about hurricanes - is it that?

more like Typhoon mary lol

Yes Mary & Frank were Hurricanes.

A literary one now LOL

"no-legs lay on one-leg, two-legs sat nearby on three-legs, four-legs got some"

Table top on a leg with a person sitting on a three legged stool with a dog?

not quite

It's a man sharing a fish with his cat

for a bonus point, can you name the literary work where it appears in print?

Here's a clue - my sister once had dinner with the author. During the meal, he complained that various fans of his work were claiming to converse in a certain language - "how can they do that? I've not finished inventing it yet!"

Sorry don't know. I knew of it as "What has two legs on top of three legs with four legs on the floor" was told it at school many years ago.

As I quoted it, it's in "Lord of the Rings".


The language I mentioned was Elvish.

Anyway thor, over to you :-)

This one is probably well known

A man looks at a picture on a wall and says

Brothers and sisters I have none
But that man's Father is my Fathers Son

Who is in the Picture?

I reckon it must be the man viewing the picture who speaks the rhyme.

No

its the speaker's own son

I am my fathers son, so that mans father must be me. So the man in the picture must be my son.

His grandfather?

its his son - this is a hoary old one :-)

I'll assume I was correct on this one :-)

and so I'll get in a quick one

A man goes on a trip to hunt bear. He pitches his tent and beds down for the night. In the morning he walks 15 miles due south, then 15 miles due east. He sees a bear and shoots it, then he drags it back 15 miles to his tent.

What colour was the bear?

@softwizz, correct.

You have totally lost me on ths one.

white he's in the south pole?

White (Polar Bear) he has pitched his tent on the North Pole.

He walks 15 miles south of North Pole then 15m East of that position and thus still equals 15m south of tent at north pole.

@quark well done

@windsorboyd - close but no cigar :-)

:(

why are the post in that order????????
windsor was 10hrs quark was 9 hours
the question was what colour was the bear. so what the pole was doesnt matter.!!

No, merl - windsorboyd had the answer all wrong. The whole thing hinges on the geometry of the walk, and the fact that one of the compass directions had to be a curved line. That means that the compass directions are a fundamental part of the problem, so guessing a white bear while postulating the completely opposite end of the world, doesn't cut it. Simply put, it is impossible to travel south from the south pole, so the tent could not have been there. In fact, from the directions and distances given, it could not be any place except the north pole.

:(

quark, it's your go!

he must be partying too hard lol

can i do one i knew as a child if quark doesn't take his turn by tommorrow morning?

what is the next number in this sequence?


5; 20; 1; 18; ??

4

its a dartboard

Fine Wizz

Back to you

what is the next number in this series?

10, 6, 13, 1, 13, 10, 10, 1, ??

do I get the impression that you guys need clues?

If I tell you that the answer is 17, who can work out the meaning?

a clue: you would get the answer immediately if I presented the sequence in a slightly different code.

oops, the answer is not 17 but 19

binary code?

no, sorry

I'm coming up dry on this one, maths was never my thing.

trying to think of a clue which won't just give it away.

OK - there are 12 numbers in the complete series.

Are these numbers known to everyone?

Do the numbers correspond to the amount of letters in a word?

@thor - the pattern is well known to everyone, but in a different coding system

@ged - no, but good idea :-)

Is it something relating to the months in a calendar year?

you have it, ged :-)

Hmmm...

Is it the number of days I actually work in each month LoL

can I assume you have the answer, ged? I suppose you'd better state it explicitly, for the record.

No, not yet at least...

when you write it out in its conventional code system, you'll see the son of a Bond :-)

The first letter of each month represents the corresponding number:

J=10 F=6 M=13 A=1 M=13 J=10 J=10 A=1 S=19 O=15 N=14 D=4

Give me some time to think one up unless someone has one they wish to put up...

Those who make them don't need them,
Those who buy them don't want them,
Those they are bought for never use them...What are they?

are we allowed to google this?

I know it, I know it!! ,but im not playing today as i am off out and cant guarentee to be sensible on my return. lol.

@wizz, Yes,if you wish, but it might be more fun to have a few guesses ;oD

diapers?

No

Birthday cards fit the criteria.?

No

Grave Markers?

I'll give you that quark, I presume you mean headstones.

Here's another numeric sequence.


5 24 16 33 1 20 14 31


so what number comes next and why?

9 - its a roulette wheel

darts and roulette - not hard to see how you whiled away your misspent youth, quark!

lol

he does run a bar lol

True true

But softwizz you got them immediately didn't you?

So who else had a misspent youth?

lol

I cannot tell a lie... :-)

I seem to have forgotten to have my go :-(

I'll try to think of something later tonight...

Train A and train B are crossing the country, from coast to coast, over 3,000 miles of railroad track. Train A is going from east to west at 80 miles per hour, and Train B is going from west to east at 90 miles per hour. Which train will be closer to the west coast when they meet?

They will both be the same distance from the west coast.

(and also both be the same distance from the east coast!)

do they travel in a straight line?

@quark - no

@ged - irrelevant

Are the trains pulling extra weight(carriages etc)

irrelevant

Hold on a sec, quark is right, when they meet they will both be exactly the same distance away?

no

should I explain it?

When the trains meet, they will be at exactly the same point. Therefore, they will each be the same distance from the west coast.

As one is coming from the east and one going to the east when they meet they will be at an equal distance regardless of speed.

If I were to walk to my local shop and met a friend running from the same shop. The point at which we meet means we would be at an equal distance from the same shop.

You should think a little more carefully about what we mean by 'meet'.

As far as I am concerned, they meet when their front ends get as close as they will ever get. At that point, the train coming from the west is significantly westward of the one coming from the east.

I know there is a different solution - in line with yours - on the web, but I think it is wrong. That solution implies that the trains each become coexistant at the same point in space, and they don't do that! A train does not, of itself, exist at a single point in space either :-) so the physical size of the trains *is* a significant issue, as is the question of where do they first "meet".

(ducks) lol

We (at least I) did not get to the answer from the web, when thought about it is the natural answer, I'm sure thats how quark and thor reached their conclusion...

I don't mind if you want to claim a win, quark :-)

I'm sure you guys will tell me if I get too abstruse or convoluted or just plain nerdy about these things... :-)

I so claim.

To me 'meet' in the scenario you post is when they overlap not nose to nose. Besides the length of a train with respect to 3,000 miles would be approx. 1 / 5,400,000 which is a totally neglible amount.( i.e. 0.0000185
But you posed quote "over 3,000 miles" which means that was approximate and therefore my answer is the only logical answer as you did not specify the exact distance.

As to your comment about yourself...no comment. LOL.

As I cannot ATT think of another puzzle whoever gets here first after me may pose the next one.

Amir tied two sacks of salt to the back of his donkey and headed for the market to sell the salt. On the way, Amir and the donkey passed a stream. The donkey jumped in to cool himself. As a result, much of the salt dissolved into the water, ruining the salt for Amir but improving matters for the donkey because his load became much lighter. Amir tried to get to the market on the following days, but the donkey always ruined the salt.

Finally, Amir decided to teach the donkey a lesson. He once again set out with the donkey and the two sacks. What did Amir do differently this time so that after that day the donkey stopped taking a swim?

filled the sacks with something absorbant to increase the weight when the donkey jumped in the stream, cloth or towels maybe?

@WINDSOR

Nearly there. Not cloth or towels.

Sponge?

He went a different way so he did not have to pass by the stream.

N'Gedmen, No

N'Quark, No

paper

cement powder (or whatever its called before its mixed with water)

Ok Windsorboyd, i'll give it to you. He filled the bags with sand.

Your Turn.

what can go up a chimney down but not down a chimney up.

I know this one so i'll let someone else have a go.

An umbrella?

Smoke?

its an umberella well done softwizz

You are in a room which has only two doors and no other means of exit. Each door is attended by a guard. One door leads to death, the other leads to life. You must leave the room immediately, or you will be shot dead. You are aware that one of the guards is a consistant liar and the other is completely truthful, but you don't know which one is which.

How do you preserve your life?

I think I know but i'll have to get it straight in my head first. It's one of those answers that is hard to put into words. I assume that along with the answer you need an explanation of how the answer relates to the situation.

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Ask either guard "Will I be shot dead if I stay here in this room?"
***********************************************************************
If he says No he is the liar. So then you ask him "will I die if I go through your door" If he says Yes go through his door if he says No go through the other door.
***********************************************************************
If he says Yes he is the truthful guard ask the same question
"will I die if I go through your door" and act according to his answer.

@quark, I cocked up. I shold have also said "you can only ask one question".

Can you say what that question is?

Ask one of the guards

"What would the other guy say if I asked him which door to use?

The truthful guard will point to the door the liar would choose (the wrong door) and the liar will point to the wrong door. So whoever you ask the question to just go through the opposite door.

@thor, yes - but I think quark should get some points too :-)

There are three switches downstairs. Each corresponds to one of three light bulbs in the attic. You can turn the switches on and off and leave them in any position. How would you identify which switch corresponds to which light bulb, if you are only allowed one trip upstairs?

switch all 3 @ the same time?

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Get your missus to turn them on one by one while you are in the attic!!

N'Quark

No

I should have stated that you must complete the task alone.

Switch on the two end switches.

N'Gedmen

No.

Switch one bulb on, leave one bulb off and switch the third bulb on to warm up for a few minutes but turn it off before you go upstairs, the warm bulb of the two that are switched off helps you to find which switch corresponds to which bulb...Voila!

Correct.

well done ged

A child is born in December in 1980 and dies in January in 1954 aged 26...How is this possible?

time machine

No...

One or both of the numbers is an address rather than a date.

Correct.