We have all heard of it,what are your thoughts?

Mine it is a natural occurance that happens periodiacly.

Do not know why this double posted?

@joker

I agree the earth has been warming up for 8 centuries.

There probably is a small truth to pollution being additive.

It is warming no question but It has nothing to with man that is a farce to make money no more and to create energy shortage as to drive the price up read this article
http://epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressRoom.Blogs&Conte
ntRecord_id=0DF9B3CD-802A-23AD-4984-5AC0C6D42605
cheers

capt capt capt, this is an excerpt from the URL that you yourself just posted......
"Earth is currently experiencing rapid warming, which the vast majority of climate scientists says is due to humans pumping huge amounts of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere."
Then the article goes on to try to disprove with other "experts" who assuming the acticle was telling the truth must be in the minority that the preface is wrong.

All I can say is it's time everyone took their head out of the sand, the evidence is there we ignore it at our own peril!

@paddledbag you have beeb brainwashed it is a natural cyle of the sun read the rest of the articles mars' temp is going up at the same rate of hrs and if they had the capcity and the wil to find out they would find saturn is up as well I have read a lot on the subject It is a man made scam to drive prices up

http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html
here is more news

Oh dear I have been brainwashed? Is it a coincidence that the US is the only industrialised country in the world that hasn't signed the Kyoto protocol? I think not, I think it is you and all who read this US propoganda that are being brainwashed.
You just have to go to other threads on this site to see how people believe the power in the US does not lie with its elected representatives but with vested interests, the same vested interests who would actually have to do something about their scandalous emission of greenhouse gases if the US were to sign the protocol.

@capt
We havn't been brainwashed! You just hide from the facts.

Maybe there is a small factor in natural causes, but our pollution is the main cause for global warming! Look at the facts - we cannot deny it! We mustn't deny it!!!
If we do, we only doom ourself and furthermore our children and grandchildren and everyone yet to be born.
We are in the position to do something against what we caused!

then tell me how can mars be warming at the same rate and there ice age may be ending if it is not a naturally occourance I dont know if you are old enough but these same sciencetist that screaming about global warming are the ones that were yelling about the new ice age back in the 70s david suzki was on his box about that check the BBC archives you will see that all petered out by the 80s the sun goes thru stages

Yes I am most certainly old enough unfortunately lol and yes all you say about natural occurence is very true, but this is something different.
You posted a US senate site, here is one by the Australian government, expressed in simplictic terms, it is meant for school children.
http://www.greenhouse.gov.au/education/factsheets/global_warming.html

As you can see there is a vast difference between Australia and the US on this subject. The US is denying anything is wrong.
Australia is trying to teach our kids to be responible world citizens and I have to say it is working, the kids here today are much more aware about global warming, the enviroment, water conservation etc than my generation was, and they really care about it.

do you realize that the carbon dioxide they are talking about actually takes 800 to 1000 years to catch up to the warming trend kinda of hard to blame humans for that dont ya think ppl have jumped on it and are making huge dollars on the fear of global warming If they want to something stop pollution not carbon dioxide that is for our health. Pollution is the real killer not a warmin trend and to add to the debunking of al gore he never ever mentions that the magnetic poles are slowing swithch from south to north which will also cause global warming because the electromagnetic shield has changed somewhat. Gore and His bunch fail to mention this anywhere with their gobbley gook propaganda

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=17977 here is another report. It is and eye opener

this is another link but it is about the magnetic field
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2889127.stm

@ Joker you done it now mate opened up a huge can or worms Something everyone can sink their teeth into lol

AHFA

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this capt, you are never going to convince me it is not you who are being brainwashed.
Here in Australia we live with the increasing hole in the ozone layer everyday, skin cancer has become a much bigger risk that it was previously, it is a life and death thing to educate our children to protect themselves from it. Please don't tell me it's not happening, I have the skin cancers to prove it.

Here in Europe we also see it in the same way as paddlebag quoted / sees it.
Many (as in different! Often if it is about other themes very controversal!) governments, institutes, universities, scientists... all are brainwashed, yeah yeah.

Uups, was not ready: strange that they are in one theme united: we should do something!

And even when you beliefe only the in ~ 1000 years part, it is still a reason to stop immediatly or as fast/much as possible, so our childern' children will have enogh problems because of what we do now.

Brainwashing aside, I feel it is only right to treat the environ in which we live as good as we personally are able. I will never be able to sort out who or what is responsible for global warming but I am responsible for my own impact on this planet.

@ paddle I agree with the ozone layer and I am not saying there is not global warming,however the hole in the ozone layer was caused by pollution the hair spray affect as it is called that is pollution and what I have read in the past few months the whole in the Oszone layer is getting smaller due to the ban on hair spray effect items and it should be healed within 10 years> This is 2 different issues 1 is on its way to being fixed.

Yeah I do realise they are separate issues, global warming and the hole in the ozone layer that is, but they are very much inter connected too with global warming hindering the excellent results achieved by the Montreal protocol on CFC's and the depletion in the ozone also exacerbating global warming.

I am sure you have read at least some of the mountains of information available on the subject so won't bore you with it.

The point is this statement of yours "what I have read in the past few months the whole in the Oszone layer s getting smaller due to the ban on hair spray effect items and it should be healed within 10 years" is simply untrue, what has happened is the rate at which the hole is expanding has slowed, 44.1 million tons in 2006 and 30.5 million tons in 2007. a significant reduction indeed but a reduction in the rate of increase in the size of the hole not unfortunately a reduction in the size of the hole itself.

*a significant reduction indeed but a reduction in the rate of increase in the size of the hole not unfortunately a reduction in the size of the hole itself.*

Nothing it is truer then this!

And this just has been reduced because of the effort of some nations that had signed the Kioto protocol.

Lamentably, we have been very slow in the recognition of the problem and the effective solution of the problems.

It must be obvious to anyone that millions of people driving their cars, flying around the world, building power stations etc. must be having an effect on our planet. In many cities the effect of pollution is obvious. We are destroying our world. I will be long gone but I care about future generations.

@capt
This has nothing to do with my age!

And to anyone who does not believe in global warming:
It's not only for environment that we have to reduce the use of fossile fuels. The oil and coal funds of the earth are being used up drastically because of all the cars, planes, means of producing energy etc. But we need oil for substances like plastic or for medications. And right now, whe burn them, we waste them so fast that soon all the resources of oil and coal will be used up. Those resources are impossible to restore again. (unless you have thousends of years to live) We should use them for the most valuable and important purpose. Fuel can be won from biofuels and Energy can be generated from wind, sun, tide, etc. Those methods harm nobody.
And stopping global warming is a welcome side-effect!

@julinee

Being good stewards is a responsible response to this debate. @mekon is right about the millions of vehicles being driven around, industrial activity.

The car manufacturers buying up alternative technology preventing the consumer from getting off the oil bandwagon.

On the otherside of the issue: Many people depend on earning a living because of the Oil & Gas industry. In Edmonton City Council is proposing an anti idling bylaw. It is cold up here in Alberta for 7 months of the year, lots of idling vehicles so they don't freeze up! It is not an easy endevour.

@julinee

I certainly agree with using fossil fuels for a better purpose.

But stopping global warming this way, No chance!

More effort should be put into Nuclear power research to find a cheap safe method of generation of Electricity and in tandom find an efficient way of using electricity for Vehicles. These two if accomplished will release fossil fuels for the purposes you advocate.

A side effect would be to reduce if not eliminate the problems of the Middle East and remove the vested interests in promoting war there.

@fozzy
Of course many people rely on those workplaces. And we can't just chop that branch off, but we have to develop other ways and - step by step - make way for change.

@quark
You're right. I used that phrase badly. (Still can't think properly - that damn cold!)
What I actually meant was that we could reduce carbondioxide emissions if we could change to nuclear or bio energies. Which would at least slow down global warming, opposed to an increasing CO2-emission.
That's what I wanted to say. Next time, I'll explain myself before posting such crap again. Sorry for causing misunderstandings.

@julinee

I have not ever read any postings from you that are not well expressed. No self deprecation required! We can't write complete books in this type of medium. This is a big subject!

@nip,
One of the greatest untapped natural fuel sources we have on the planet is the least used,"Methane".By its self it is a greenhouse gas,but if used as a fuel it becomes harmless water vapor.Farms that raise livestock produce millions of metric tons of it a year.Termites produce even more and there are trillions of metric tons of it under the Siberian tundra and in the Great North Sea.These are just a few of many sources of this abundant fuel source.Along with nuclear,wind,solar,and tidal,and hydroelectric we can go into the future clean and save our dear planet.

@nip
It is so good to see so many of you care about this issue and realise we all have to be personally responsible for our impact on this earth.
If I became a little too vehement on the issue and upset anyone, particularly you capt I apologise, I do need to curb my passionate nature.

@padded

WE quite like that passionate nature!

A heated discussion is very appropriate for this thread.

@fozzy - ditto.

@nip,
It is true that this is not the first time in Earths history that there has been a global warming crisis. The last two times that it happened the Earth suffered mass extinctions and then the Earth healed its self with a cool down that lasted millions of years.It is a natural cycle,but mankind has sped up and exacerbated this process with pollution and abuse of natural resources.
We are on the brink of our own mass extinction. Our planet is a rare gem in the solar system,it sustains life in many diverse habitats.She is out of balance and needs our help.
The two previous mass extinctions were caused by the Earth heating up and releasing mass amounts of methane into the atmosphere.Methane boils at -160C,and there are hundreds of trillions of metric tons held under pressure at the bottoms of our oceans.As the oceans heat up this methane will be released.It takes 9.5 years for a methane molecule to oxidize to water vapor and co2.As this happens the ice caps melt raising the oceans level and desalinating them which inturn will cause the Earth to heal its self with an ice age.
Balance is important and we are tilting the scale too far towards disaster.The powers that be believe that money and power are far more important than our humble existence on this rare gem.Just think once it's gone,it's gone for good.The next step for humankind should the responsibility to change the damage we have done or suffer the consequences of doing nothing.

Nagila Nog

Nephew are you saying that the methane produced as you say is a large contributor to global warming?

If so would not governments find that easier to control than cajoling its populace on the individual level.

AHFA

@NIP

To live for the past or the present is to forfeit the future.

@nogds9 I would like to read up about the methane gas as I have not heard that about that particular theory yet astaroid hitting the Yukan I have heard about Pompie Volcano I have read about but nothing on methane and as I alluded to above it has more to with the magnetic poles changing and the sun going thru a hot spell so to speak other wise Mars would not bed suffering global warming as well Please leave me a web site url to follow up on

cheers mate

captain,google methane gas and read to your heart content.I will not argue with someone who has fallen hook ,line,and sinker for the Bush administrations advisory committees disinformation.
Watch the Nova broadcast about the magnetic field,you will find it interesting.It will not cause global warming.
@uncle Quark,
I am not saying that methane is causing global warming,what I'm saying is that if global warming continues the places that have kept this gas intact will release it into the atmosphere,the perma frost,the oceans,ect.That is not to say that methane already plays apart in global warming.The more forests we cut down the increase in termite activity,believe it or not these little bugs create 21% of airborne methane,cattle is one of the large contributers,also human activity.

@captain again,
There have been many mass extinctions since the dawn of time,two most recent are know to have been caused by methane.Others by asteroid and yet others by super volcanoes.One might consider that our knowledge of such events is still in theory and much more study must be done to throughly understand the big picture.

If the powers that be can make it politically incorrect to debate all sides of this question we will be in trouble.

@mrsjerry,
I have never known an administration to be so pig headed about an issue as important as this.I was sick when I heard he would not sign the Kyoto treaty.And how he treated the United Nations assembly was embarrassing.
Now our country in on the brink of economic disaster and he says,let them eat cake.Too bad we can't fire him for being a bad president.

@nogds9

I feel sorry for the puppet. It is the same with all political figures they all start out ready to change and improve (idealists) then shockingly discover the end to the means is always a corrupt path.

I think I meant the means to the end. oops

@captain,
I did not mean to say I would not debate with you.The old saying goes don't believe everything you read or see.I have read or watched quite a few of the same shows you have and have a bit of a different view on the subjects.
Mars lost its magnetic field and atmosphere some four billion years ago,I really don't think it is a good model for global warming.Plus the instruments that are used to take these measurements are here on Earth and subject to changes in our own atmosphere.The sun itself has been pretty consistent for billions of years,if indeed the sun is warming up,something terrible must be happening.
As Earth travels around the sun in our solar system,so does our solar system travel around our galaxy.I believe our solar system takes 250,000,000 years to make one rotation around the galaxy.Is it possible that we are in a part of the galaxy that is warmer or has more elemental debris for the sun to burn?The sun being a huge nuclear reactor,something had to change to make it hotter.
I have watched Nova/Magnetic Storm,the series The Universe,and many more documentaries on these subjects and realize that most of the info. is theory and some just hypothesis,and all is meant to stir the imagination.
One thing for sure is that global warming is a real threat and we cannot ignore it.We cannot take the chance that we are wrong or right

@nogs

Can you enlighten us about this "coal/methane" issue.

How it is bad and when it should never be done! In Alberta it was a hot subject and examples of this in the US has been disasterous!

yes global warming is real I never questioned that only the left loonies who want to make about human progress in the 1500s Midland England had was a paradise with temps averaging 75 to 80 degrees and the world did not end this is a solar cycle that happens every 500 to 800 years and btw in that time (1500) the thames never froze the left wing has made an industry out of it sucking the reg bloke dry with hight taxes on everything A lot of sciencetests are starting question the warming including quiet a few on the so called UN advisory committee on global warming and anyway if it is do to progress it is too late unless we go back to the 1800 no cars no power no factories no heat

Hmm i think no matter what we do its not going to change. Even i stop eating beans its not going to help stop global warming. Mabye using solar power and wind power makes us feel all warm and fuzzy but we are just little ants on this planet... Nature has a funny way of doing things.

@fozzy,
I don't know of what you are asking.Will get back to you after some reading.

I do not understand the mindset that will not allow for the possibility that human beings can disrupt the planet. Do you think we lack the power or that we are too innocent to be even unintentionally destroying our home?

And what is with these elongated boxes?

Sundance TV is airing a movie called "Zoo" right now about bestiality as a world wide subculture OMG!

@NIP

Assume for one moment that all that has been said about Mankind contributing to Global Warming is true.

Can the genie be put back in the bottle? I think not.

Too many sq miles of rain forest have gone.
Too much fossil fuels have been squandered.
Too much fossil fuels have been burnt in vehicles
Topically how much damage is done by the burning of chemical fuels in space technology?

There are only two routes left.

1. Continue as is and hope science discovers a way to reverse the damage. The small conversion of minds will do nothing to reverse the damage.
2. Accept that the planet is irreversably damaged from a Humaan point of view and pass gracefully into extinction.
3.

@quark

I was waiting for 3.? or do we fill in the blanks!

@fazzybear i think 3 is pass disgracefully into extinction

@fozzybear

Yes 3 is for your alternative if you have one?

@windsorboyd

I didn't want to say that as it is probably what I should have said in 2.

Plastic toxic soup bigger than USA..
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread340813/pg1'
Something for you all to consider.

Could be more cause of global weather conditions than any gasses we let off.

Here's another thought from the mind of Quark.

'There can be no construction without first there be destruction'

I cite the 'big bang' as the major example of this.

The issues surrounding recent discussions on US offshore drilling for oil has significant impact for all Americans. The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward. The soaring oil prices are affecting the costs of everything from food to gas. There are also significant issues on local and global environmental impact. While there are many issues, we need to look at our next leader and determine which will have the best course of action going forward%u2026..

i wouldn't know the first thing about all this hoopla as i am just a biker chick, and usually get everything for free Innocent but i found this poll thing of sorts at <a href=http://pollclash.com/]pollclash</a> and it is interesting how they forming an unofficial debate/poll of sorts about this whole oil drilling thing. anywho, this is what it says in the headline:

<i>"Barack Obama and John McCain have made recent statements on US offshore oil drilling while on the US presidential campaign trail. Listen to..."</i> read the whole story <a href=http://pollclash.com/>here</a>

The only thing no one seems to take account of whilst worrying about cost of oil and its knock-on effects,

Is the fact that fossil fuels are running out and there can be no replacement of them like for like for the climatic causes of fossil fuels have not existed for eons.

It is about time governments and everyone faced this fact and seriously look for alternatives for power production not just paying lip service to it and leaving it for our descendants to really be the ones to suffer.

the oil prices are doing that for us Quark no one is driving unless they have to a ton of boats are not even in the water yet the lake I live on is usually one of the busiest for fishing and skiing and yet I have no seen more than 10 boats all summer mind that may have something to with the crappy weather but even this past weekend when extremely hot and sunny only a few boats where out. One of my mates has a 40' cruiser not even in the water yet we went do some stuff to get it ready 1/2 the boats were out of the water still and the other half were just docked talking to ppl there the refuse to go out gas at the marina is 7 dollars a litre that is roughly 3lbs to you quark so less driving less boating = less carbon dioxide which is a crock of chyt just money maker for corps and green industry if they want to do something about the air clean it up start forcing industry to but scrubbers on the stacks and burn at much higher temps to burn the pollutents from the waste

Yes, but giving in to economic pressure only lets the rich enjoy.

It does not solve the underlying problem.

Oil, Coal, Rain forests and minerals are being consumed with little or no regard for finding adequate replacements for future generations to enjoy the same standard of living which most in the west take for granted.

The Global Warming "debate" reminds me of an old quote from Mark Twain "Everyone talks about the weather but no one does anything about it"

Well, it that trend continues, there will be massive starvation and disease as energy becomes more expensive and less available. I do think we (Earthlings) have passed "peak oil" and it's all downhill from here.

The trick to conservation is high prices. The more it costs to run things on fossil fuels, the less people can buy. But what is seriously necessary is for ACTION in alternative energy sources. And I don't think there's just *one* answer. I think we will need many approaches to get off the oil-go-round.

BTW, I also think using food to make bio-fuel is bone dead dumb.

Just MHO of course

bump

bio-fuel
dumb you should look in to it more .

bio fuel is 5x as expensive to refine than oil not only that but it is driving food costs up all over the globe it should be tossed out like dirty bath water bad idea

there is a guy in uk doing it on his own in his home saving
$

small individuals can do it no over head and they use rotten food what ever there is bloke in Midland which is my area who collects the wasted oil from restaurants and runs his diesel vw dont know what he does but it works he is going to use it in his furnace this winter he will have no heating nor transportation costs again on a small scale actually the restaurants pay him to take the oil or so he claims

Yes that`s the way i was told. Restaurants pay more to safe
dump so cheaper ? guess

But how long till can be done on bigger ,and not cost more then it`s $$$$ ?

well considering it takes 10 bushels of corn to make 1 litre of fuel do the math mate

what about the side of oil making the bad stuff
does corn have that ?

it has the smell mate and the still need to mix it with gas or allow biodiesels in NA